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Transcript of a conversation - Anais Ardid, Communications Designer

9 Oct 2008

Anaïs graduated from the prestigious Central Saint Martins School of Art and Design in London in 2003. She worked in the UK and Spainish design industries before settling in New Zealand. Anaïs has worked at Moxie Design Group for the past 18 months and is currently based in Spain and researching sustainable design initiatives in Europe. She recently attended the Changing the Change conference in Torino Italy. An international conference on the role and potential of design research in the transition towards sustainability.This is a brief outline of her thoughts on the conference. The interview was undertaken by Tim Rainger - Creo Sustain Team Leader.

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TIM: Hi Its Tim calling.

ANAÏS Yeah, yeah, said someone would call, but I wasn't sure who, but yeah go for it.

TIM: Ok cool " I wanted to keep it relatively brief, but he mentioned you had just been to this conference in Torino [Changing the Change]. I was curious to know how you felt the conference went. We are just about to have a Better By Design conference here in New Zealand. There has been a lot of discussion around the potential for designers to resolve key sustainability issues and I was curious to know how you found the Torino conference?

ANAÏS Yeah it was interesting because I've been working with Moxie in New Zealand until like a month ago and I am now spending a year here tryito understand what's happening in Europe. Changing the Change was my first contact, and to understand what's going on. And the thing about this conference in particular is, it was on Design Research more than on practical design. So, there was a lot of talk that about the role of design research in the sustainability debate, if you know what I mean, more than real design. It was very academic. A lot of talk on how to educate designers because the problem now days are that we don't know what the world is going to look like in two years. We obviously don't know what the world is going to look like in ten years - yet we need to be educating for it, so it was very, very education based. One of the issues that kept coming up that I think is also relevant in New Zealand, is about the role of the designer as the facilitator. So, basically the role of the designer, um, sort of meeting different people from different disciplines, and being that link, you know?

TIM: Between the Industry and market?

ANAÏS No, no, no. Say - in between a product designer and a marketing person� or a biologist�. You know, like all of those disciplines. " Even disciplines that are not historically related to design.

TIM: Right, so you're talking about the development of new materials or new products, or�?

ANAÏS No, no, no. The development of a new design strategy, if you know what I mean, so more of the designer as that link. The problem is that really, there is a lot of knowledge out there in terms of sustainability " in terms of materials, in terms of technology, you know. And the problem is the integration of all of those disciplines. So, there was a lot of talk about the designer being that link, you know, that person that puts people in touch. Like, you have this guy who knows a lot about materials- and that other guy who has a problem with a pipe, and the designer being that link- more than the traditional role of a designer. You know, the person who goes into the black box and comes back with something already made, if you know what I mean. There was a lot of talk about networking, and how to network and about collaboration, and about understanding that design now-a-days has to be something that is not just about designers. It has to be about people from other areas like, economics or politics. Everything has to be, the design has to be, based on a lot of other disciplines and knowledge.

TIM: Yeah I guess a lot of political and economic forces that are changing, that are having input in to the company policy - I guess that would be reflected in products and, in design in general.

ANAÏS Yeah, yeah. TIM: It was interesting when you were talking about the guy with the materials and the designer, and he knows the guy with the pipe. Does it mean more, greater, amounts of knowledge is required by designers to deliver in this kind of climate? It sounds like they need to be a poet, chemist, physicist, biologist�.

ANAÏS The problem is that designers don't really know a lot about anything. Um, you know? They understand the creative process, but they don't know enough about materials or about biology, or business strategy, to be able to build all those things. So, so it has to be, you know, they have to be able to use the knowledge of other disciplines to�� make designs that are truly sustainable. Otherwise what happens is that designers come up with like, silly eco designs that basically don't work�

TIM: Design as an entire strategy. It doesn't matter how good the design " it may not work essentially [as a sustainable product]

ANAÏS Exactly, yeah. Basically, the conference is a lot about how to educate designers to understand that the design process has to be a process that implicates a lot of other disciplines as well. And what professors in universities are finding is that it is really hard to teach design, when design means so many things, because the role of design is changing I'm finding it hard to explain in English�!

TIM: What would you say was the feeling amongst the designers that were there? Was there a significant sense of challenges that are ahead, or feeling uncomfortable with the challenges they are facing?

ANAÏS I think at that conference in particular there were a lot of different levels. I think people who had more knowledge of what is really going on were really excited and they find its a really challenging moment to be a designer. And then there was the other level [of designers], who don't quite understand what is going on and they sort of feel they are losing - like they are missing the train. They have to learn what was going on to be able to be designers, because that is what the industry is asking for�. A lot of people felt lost at the same time, so there were two levels. Sometimes I think designers are a bit behind even if they are the ones who are meant to be inventing the world. Sometimes they are the last ones to realise that things are changing. I think at the beginning [of the conference] they feel lost, and then once they realise there is a challenge they feel excited. I met people from both sides, but actually I think there is not two sides but two stages: people in the 1st stage will get excited very soon. I don't think they understand it yet - When I talk to them they don't quite get it. They talk more about compliance, not innovation. So it's those two levels, and because everything is moving so quickly [in innovation/design sector] there has to be those levels. There are the leaders, and those who are not. Tim: Yeah, it's a reflection on society anyway, in the broader sense. In general, have you had good experiences in terms of sustainability and design through your European experience so far? Is there a sense of �flowering' of good design?

ANAÏS I have to say, compared to New Zealand, I think Europe it behind. I think because NZ has that culture, New Zealanders feels more excited than Europeans. In Europe, everything is institutionalised. Like, there is a process for everything. Which means everything is much slower in Europe in a way. Certainly, I feel that way at the conference, they spend three days discussing what to research. Everything takes a long time. In NZ you just go and do it. If you need to know something you just read what you have to read. In Europe you have meetings about having meetings. You know, it's an attitude and a culture towards life. Things seem easier in NZ than in Europe, in terms of changing things. So, a the moment, I have to say I feel that if I was to stay here and work as a designer in Europe I would be going backwards a bit, in relation to what I had been doing in NZ, which at the same time is exciting as there is more to do here. And there are more people to get excited about it. Defiantly its a bit backwards. People are not talking about innovation, but about the recession and compliance, not about spending money and rethinking the way we make things

TIM: Yeah it' happening here to " in terms of the recession. I haven't seen people closing up shop, but I know it's an issue to stay alive as a business, and that will affect thinking.

ANAÏS Well not the thinking, but the money companies want to put into innovation, which will stop the process!

TIM: Any other thoughts, or things of interest?

ANAÏS One of the things that worried me about this conference was the talk about universities getting involved in the industry�.If you take the medical In design though it is different " design conventions that universities organise seem to be aimed at the Industry/clients and not thinking about working designers. At Moxie, for example, we spent a lot of resources coming up with new processes and tools " and it would be really great if universities were doing research that designers could use, but instead they do research that they give to their clients and don't get working designers involved. At this conference they talked about developing those tools to improve communications between the universities and the clients -without thinking about the designer, and I think that is a mistake. The universities research in medicine is not given to patients, but given to doctors. I think we are missing out on a massive resource, because we have Universities wanting to do the research and Design companies having to develop tools " so we are doubling up and doing the same job twice. It would make more sense that designers work on developing networks with design universities. To me this is a worry.We need to get universities involved with real innovation, and its important that we educate designers for an uncertain future. So instead of getting clients to tell design universities what they are in to " it should be the Design practitioners telling universities [what is new in design] so we can move forward much faster. Otherwise we will go down the �compliance' route, because that's what the �Industry' (or Clients) understand.

TIM: What's the coolest thing you have seen in Design since you have been there? [in Torino]

ANAÏS Um, I have to say not much. The thing I found more interesting at the conference was a concept a guy from �Institute without Boundaries' developed " it was a concept/idea that when you design an object and it breaks, you have to throw away the whole object. But this was a concept of designing using PIECES, so you can change the pieces not the whole object. (to allow for better, easier transport.) I was pretty disappointed " there were a lot of silly eco designs. Like, 'Look we've made a thing and if you put it where the cars go, and the cars are being noisy it will turn bright red.� You know that sort of silly thing. That's where I'm saying we are going down the �compliance' route. Not many people, especially European people, are really understanding what's going on. It was more people like the Canadians and Americans that are talking about the real issues.

TIM: Any other significant things you have noticed or been made aware of? Transport systems? Recycling?

ANAÏS No, not really " I don't think the way they were presenting [at the conference] was significant. They really were talking to the converted " and I think we should be working on designs that talk to both the �converted' and the non-converted. So no, it was very much based on �eco design', all very GREEN but we have been seeing this for the last ten years. I have to say it was pretty disappointing. And because the conference was very academic, it was more based on what research they will do, and not actual stuff they have done.

TIM: If you have any other thoughts email them through and I can weave it in to the story.

ANAÏS It was interesting to see where Europe is at, but I don't think there was anything here that I haven't seen before. But again, that might not be because the designs in Europe, but because the conference was very academic. There were a lot of Professors talking, which may not be the best way to represent the things that are happening. But it gave me an overview of where design schools are at, and where design (education-wise) is going in Europe " which was pretty disappointing.